My homework for the week is about sorting out how to see guilt indicated in a chart.

Though Janice spoke to it a lot in her bio, i wasn't sure how to see it in her chart. Ari said Cancer/Capricorn nodes and Saturn. SN in Capricorn 3rd makes sense of guilt about being better off than her siblings who are all fairly incapacitated with mental illness. That makes sense. And the Capricorn tendency to judge and hold to external  standard of decent moral citizen as an archetype. 

Saturn with Mercury and SN in the 9th is more vague to me... I had interpreted that as the imperative to mature the emotional self identity and become more true to herself, more natural, free and emotionally self sufficient (moon 2nd house sag). Which Janice seems to embody so well... I also saw Capricorn/Saturn in Cancer as the natural feminine wise elder. 

I guess I can see how guilt fits archetypally, and I really resonated with what Ari said about doing a lot of good work in the world to be the "good moral (and successful by society standards) person" that is natural to Capricorn but needing to integrate the emotional identity into it more authentically. 

This idea of 9th house Cancer being about emotional authenticity seems key.

In light of that work (I have the same nodal axis, but Capricorn in 3rd is NN for me and we are reading my chart next week), I just discovered a dream i wrote down from full moon in Scorpio night:

I dreamt of my horse, an old pinto moutain horse, alpha mare i had when I lived on the farm with my ex husband. She was the coolest horse ever, so old and wise and compassionate, tough and completely sovereign. She hated my ex husband, she could see him exactly for the pompous ass that he was and she would kick him just for walking near her with his pompousness 😂.

He had planned a beautiful, equally pompous white lipizaner for me, but I instantly bonded with the alpha mare and he allowed me to keep her even though he had been planning to sell her for mortadella. She taught me how to ride and how to feel my despair.

In my dream, I was living in an apartment. I remembered that I was keeping her in a small tight closet and that I hadn't taken her out in a while. I felt so guilty! And desperate.

I took her out and she shit on the floor. I wasn't mad, I had so much compassion. And guilt for forgetting her. I took her outside and tried to talk a friend into doing something with horses. She was not interested. It was so impractical in the city. I was driving back to my place with the horse (?!) and ended up in an old peoples home with my car...(?!) Trying to back out without running anyone over was so stressful.. omg, what?! 🐎
I woke up feeling overwhelmingly sad for this horse and for where I have backed myself into...

When I woke up, I felt the horse was exactly my Capricorn archetype and that I had somehow displaced her (the wise sovereign one). So the guilt was there too. And a whole bunch of old people who did not integrate their Capricorn elder wisdom. 

That is all i know for now.

Beautiful dream Marija! That is really rich. 

That shitting on the floor... that's a fear for me. Let the wild/natural out and it WILL be embarrassing - uncontrollable! 

And the old people who were not Elders... had no wisdom to offer in the end.... Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I have Cap Sun & Cap Rising and Saturn 1° Aquarius conjunction my AC. I am a child of Saturn. I found The Bone Mother archetype very helpful (both you & Bob sent that to me). It opened a new & ancient way of relating to those aspects of myself. 

In another way, I found the Greek Saturn to be helpful around the psychology of guilt. The castration and overthrowing of his father is done at the bidding of his mother. There is something deeply ingrained in the action we feel impelled to take (through feeling for others or our conditioning - projecting our own fears and weaknesses) that then leaves us unsatisfied, and in precarious positions of power. (false power) And guilty. Shamed.

All of the ways I've acted from ideas and/or my self-image around "duty", "honour", "picking up the pieces and being responsible" when others can't/aren't.... a whole lifetime of driving, energy output.  All without FEELING (Polarity of Cancer).  Without allowing, (surrendering to higher authority) allowing others to hang themselves, to suffer, to fall down, to fail, to be in pain. This was how I was avoiding these emotions ("failures/weaknesses") in myself. Sometimes abusing these false powers as well - to achieve my (always very worthy) goals. 

I had to re-define "failure" and "success" and "power" and "weakness" and "time" - for myself. I took my true power back from those labels.

I'm learning to allow Reality to Be what it is. Self and others to Be what we are (in any given moment). It's not mine to engineer an outcome. Unless, in my stillness and emptiness, (which used to feel threatening - risking failure and shame) something genuinely moves me, energizes me. I'm learning to use my libido, as Jung would say, to guide my actions. When the energy is being provided from something greater than me, then I feel the desire in a totally different way than when I act out of fear... anyway... I think we are here (with Saturn/Cap/10th) learning about True Security and Power as opposed to false security and power. How these forces manifest (structure) in a society and in ourselves. The catch 22 is that we have to FEEL it through our bodies (polarity Cancer/Moon/4th) and we have to feel secure enough to allow those Saturnian boundaries to become porous; having the wisdom to know what "right-action" is and enough Self-Love to forgive. 

Thoughts on that....  sorry if I'm rambling....

The dream is wild Marija, as most are.  I guess some pun is intended for the horse.  You can only control them to a certain point.  And why would we want to?  They are beautiful the way they are. 

Dawn this is a beautiful understanding of the guilt around Capricorn/ Saturn.  I had to research the Cronus mythology and think about this for a while.  I have Mars in Capricorn as a skip step.  Maybe that is why I missed the archetype in reading the Janice's chart.  Even after my research, as I read through your post again, it took me a minute to really grasp what you are saying.  I love how you described the way you needed to learn to allow others to be who they are to not take responsibility for them and rob them of their opportunity to learn.  Falling down is ultimately a beautiful thing, especially if the lessons are learned.  I have heard it said before but for some reason when I hear the mythology and learn it through the story it seems to drop in for me. 

The part of your post I am still chewing on.

'All without FEELING (Polarity of Cancer).  Without allowing, (surrendering to higher authority)' This is a part that I feel has been missing for me. 

I had to re-define "failure" and "success" and "power" and "weakness" and "time" - for myself. I took my true power back from those labels.

Thank you for this!  I found something new to contemplate.  I feel it is hitting me at the right time.  Allowing something divine to take the reins is a new concept for such strong Capricorn energy.  

Finding and understanding the truth of the lesson you have so brilliantly laid out.  

Feel free to ramble on whenever you like.  I love it.

Hey thanks Bob.

I was thinking that you could sum-up part of what I was trying to say with... "Acting from external promptings and betraying yourSelf/Soul".  

I've often felt Guilt/Shame from that dynamic.

As a child of Saturn 🙂  I often "do what is right" and then feel I've betrayed some quiet inner part of me that didn't want to do that or thought it was "wrong" in some way (I'm talking actions that are totally acceptable in society/culture). This is the path to self-authority, yes? Goat-step, by goat-step, learning to follow internal/higher guidance.

"Gonna keep on trying, till I reach the higher ground". (My favourite Stevie Wonder song). 

Do you think this is the Capricorn path leading to Aquarius's alienation/cool objectivity?

Once you've deeply questioned your culture/self, and learned to trust your own authority it's hard to "fit in".... ya?... and at the same time you do have wisdom/insight to bring to the collective - no matter how compelling/strange you may find the collective.

Praise be to astrology for giving us such an instructive structure to play in!